Oh, BS Al. <i>This is their f-cking job</i>, to make decisions like this. If they haven't figured out (triangulated, is that the word I'm looking for) what their position is by now wrt. Afstan, maybe they should look for something less challenging. It's not like he asked for a mission to Micronesia or something out of left-field.

Who are "they", you rude evening sleeper? The PMO? The government of one? Bleet upon bleet was given about presenting issues to parliament and this is what we get. I am Iggtarian on this one but that still required actually providing information and time (which there is plenty of) to have a proper debate. Maybe your form of democracy does not include proper debate in the House of Commons, though.

No, my form of democracy involves second guessing by an appointed body of nobodies, approval by undivinable legal principles by another appointed body of nerds and then passed on for grudging non-implementation by a hired gang of Buzz-drones. So my concerns that a bunch of zeros in Parliament didn't get to showboat and poll (and then vote exactly the way they did last night) over an issue that's dominanted the news for the last couple of months really doesn't get my bile up too much.

Sorry, I shold have said: "bunch of zeros".

Come now, Alan, people must have known where they stood on this particular issue by now. Especially given that take-note debate of a couple weeks ago.

I did rather like Ibbitson's description of it, however: <i>an unparalleled mixture of principled policy and political sleaze</i>.

A winning combination, methinks!

And since I'm on a roll, insert: "rubberstamped by an appointed loyalty-rewarded CBC employee".

By each of your forms of logic, then, you are supporters of all that was done by Chretien and Martin was A-OK as it was the power of the PMO to wield as it deemed fit. Congratulations from someone whose only participation (like yours) in the democracy of the land is apparently to rub a pencil by the name of one of a bunch of zeros. I will take your future comments on democractic principles accordingly.

Oh, I don't know. There was a vote, after all. Chretien and Martin wouldn't have dreamed of having one...

Cromwell allowed them, too, as did Mao.<p>But I will be nice as as I always am and as particularly you, Ben, you are my only source of assistance in a related matter. I have a particular genial slur in mind for our new rural overlords which is based on a Russian concept, the word for which had escaped my addled recollection. You will remember in the Yeltsin era there was a former Russian General, who I believe who has since died, who rose then fell from political prominance. There was much talk about the way he addressed the Big Man aspect of the Russian national soul. I cannot recall the word for such a person. Do you?

Well, I remember the general himself -- Aleksandr Lebed. (Lebed means "swan" -- "Lebedinnoe ozero" was "Swan Lake".)

The Big Man aspect of the Russian soul, however -- I'll have to look that up.

Russians definitely go for the whole strong leader thing. It explains Putin's appeal.

The word often used -- Stalin had this applied to him -- is Вождь (Vozhd).

Is that what you mean, or is it a different one?

That is not ringing a bell but does it mean "you da man, Great Leader, uncle who has cottage in holy birch grove and speaks with holy fool"?

Vozhd are also Tzimisce war-ghouls so that might be helpful.

Especially if we could, you know, deploy them in battle. The Taliban would not see those suckers coming. Or if they did it would be <i>the last thing they would ever see</i>.

I thought the whole idea of having a vote on the extended deployment was ridiculous, btw. Yes, it lets the PM once again wrong foot the opposition, and especially the Liberal party. But it does so at the expense of properly upholding Crown prerogative in war-making and as such struck me as a slippery-slope into democracy. Which in this case I am against.

You see clearly, Master Flea. Confidence undermining tactics by a thinly but brightly wrapped pretend Vozhd who still stands majestic amongst suicides and fratricides unaware that he, too, is waiting for his own Inspector General. [Ed.: <i>Is that it?</i>]

Well, Alan, the people who play the role of the Vozhd tend to have staying power...

Flea -- I'm not sure whether I like Crown prerogative in terms of war-making powers.

If most debates will be like last night's, perhaps, but it's a tricky subj.

Hence the old Testament accusatory finger-pointery exclaiming the presence of the false Vozhd.

It think it is fine to be opposed to Crown prerogative in matters of war. This position is also called "being American". That said, we have a Constitution to overhaul if we want to do things differently north of the border. Otherwise we are left with the sort of demagogery exemplified by last night's vote.

I am sadly remiss not having Hogg's text on the Canadian constitution with which to base my thoughts on the prerogative so I feel I must accept the Flea unquestioningly as the Flea is <i>vozhd</i>.

Hey, hey, if we're all going to try to avoid demogogy, then let's call it "being republican".

Actually, that might strike me even harder, loyal subject of Her Majesty that I am...

Oh, and for proper usage of Вождь by иностранцы (foreigners), the definite article is necessary. It is "the Vozhd", as every vozhd cannot brook any challengers.

Strange ol' me. I always thought real democracy was some sort of civic engagement with the issues, though I've been told otherwise that's it's just showing up every couple of years to vote. Am I to understand now that it's giving our members an opportunity to give speeches before doing what they would have anyway?

As I noted earlier, this isn't some obscure issue or fact that parties and members haven't been given the proper opportunity to form an opinion upon.

I suppose you got some sort of update from the blogs you read on the state of the mission and the plans for what will roll out over two years and can base your civic engagement on that. Seeing, though, as I heard one of the opposition members who supported the motion say how poor it was to have a debate without the benefit of that information I guess he and I and the rest of the great unwashed unconservative preferrably silent majority should not expect that as part of our civic engagement.

"The Flea is the Vozhd!" That is the motto of The Party of the Flea (which is well past due seeking registration with Elections Canada, by the way.)<p>What would that mottolook like in Russian.

Блоха -- вождь!

"Блоха -- вождь!" is a motto I could get behind except I am a non-joiner.

Crown prerogative is, in this instance, the royal prerogative to make war. Unless we have changed our head of state while I was not looking, the Canadian government is in the same position relative to the Crown as are Her Majesty's ministers on the other side of the pond.

So, yes, it is nice to talk about democracy as civic engagement but I am talking about the system of government as it actually stands. Sovereignty and power are quite specifically laid out both through our formal constitutional arrangements and by precedent.

It is for this reason that a sham vote with no effect on the exercise of power - let alone a specific decision to deploy/recall the military - is such a bad idea. It was a bad idea to hold a vote with no consequence (beyond political grandstanding on all sides) and arguably it would have been a worse idea for the result of the vote to have been binding. Such would have been for the Prime Minister to cede a decision it was within his authority as Her Majesty's representative to make. More important, it would have been to cede a decision it is his <i>responsibility</i>, and not Parliament's, to make.

Much more sensible was the advice debate of a couple weeks ago. Yes to a Parliamentary airing of opinion but no to a kangaroo vote such as last night's. Our Parliament should in no fashion mimic the "show democracy" of places like the PRC.

Small quibble with Ben: I was being specific in pointing to Americans and not any old republic. First because Canadians most often confuse our system of representative government with that of our neighbour's (I cannot tell you how many students I have had who assumed we have the right to plead the fifth). Second because one can easily imagine republics where the war-making prerogative lies with the executive, and not the legislative, branch.

Well, you can take comfort in the fact that the number of tents and replacement tire wheels, lug nuts and so forth are probably going to be planned be competent military logistic types. You can also take comfort in the fact that other much large policies, such as Kyoto and the gun registry are going to be slowly euthanized despite the fact that constant hands on engagement by our urban underlords didn't particularly actually lead to any sort of information how they were going to accomplish their goals (if there was some sort of goal besides spending money and feeling good about ourselves).

You do not have to be a joiner when it is your own political party.<p>
<i>Блоха -- вождь!</i> is even better than "Iggy-Iggy-Iggy-Iggy-Iggy-Iggy!!!"

David should take comfort in the constitutional amendments to be implied under the <i>Блоха -- вождь!</i> banner.

CBC News:

<blockquote>
A defiant Prime Minister Stephen Harper led off the debate by declaring he would extend the mission by a year, with or without the support of the House, and would be willing to call an election on the issue, putting the ultimate decision directly into the hands of Canadians.

"We cannot walk away quickly," Harper told the House. "If we need further efforts or further mandate to go ahead into the future, we will go so alone and go to the Canadian people to get that mandate."
</blockquote>

Hardly a sham vote then, seeing whether parliament supports this and a promise of real consequences to this government. And as I constantly have been saying, hardly an issue where MPs are uninformed of anything of consequence to the mission.

"You do not have to be a joiner when it is your own political party."

I am not going through the whole Red Ensign debate again.

Flea's point being that by declaring he would extend the mission by a year, with or without the support of the House he misleads himself and us all as to his responsibility for the decision and, as Parliamentarians indicated during the debate though you do not believe them for unknown reasons (ie they must be liars or worse liberals) that they did not receive the information they would have wanted. But, aside from the misuse of a vote based on poor information, it was a wonderful use of a vote on splendid information.

"Hardly a sham vote then, seeing whether parliament supports this and a promise of real consequences to this government."

I am not saying the vote did not have consequences. I am saying it should not have been held in the first place. The Prime Minister can use a Magic 8-Ball to determine troop deployments and his choice of timing for the next election if he likes. And for the Magic 8-Ball lobby such would be to confer the appearance of legitimacy on his decision. But this would in no way change the Constitution.

What I would like to take comfort in is a Canadian public that had some idea how its own government works. My Magic 8-Ball is telling me not to hold my breath.

OK - not a political party. Perhaps, however, a nice trendy logo on t-shirt.

Less still is the "mandate of the people" necessary to make war, btw. This is even more PRC sounding than a fake vote.

How is this pronounced?

"Блоха -- вождь!"

The Flea -- a member not so much of the Old School, to steal a phrase (from the Sunday Telegraph re George Macdonald Fraser), as of the school they knocked down when the Old School was built.

Блоха -- вождь!

Oh, sorry.

"Блоха -- вождь!" is "Blokha -- vozhd!" if you Latinize the Cyrillic.

kh = a sort of gutteral h, which you'll come across if you hear Russian émigrés try to say hello.

zh = the French 'j', more or less.

I am uncertain as to whether the stress is on the first or the second syllable in the first word.

Wait... quick check of the Oxford English-Russian dictionary... the second syllable. Sounds more dramatic that way, anyway.

Microsoft joke: Magic 8 Ball says "Outlook not so good". How did it know?

Is the Russian "zh" the same as the Polish - a buzzy fuzzy "J". Being a son of Scots the gutteral is a piece of cake: "blo-(insert light hork)a vaw-jd!"<p>That is a hell of a good motto. Surely a party must follow. Ben, when you are in St. Petersburg, just use it as a general all purpose exclaimation at random points in your conversation with the populations. It is inevitable that a movement will be born.

The Magic 8-Ball is all knowing!

"...the school they knocked down when the Old School was built."

The greatest compliment I have received in a long time. Though a bit distressing too. Isn't this supposed to be a conservative party running the show?

My Polish is non-existent, but from my Russian, Ukrainian, and Czech, the zh sound seems to be pretty universal across Eastern and Western Slavic languages.

But one must be careful -- "j" signifies the consonant "y" in many Romanizations of Cyrillic, which is far, far removed from the noble and manly "zh".

Flea -- I did insist, once upon a time, that if you were a Tory, it would have to be one of the Blue side.

Don't get me started on this current government... my only hope is that they do indeed have a hidden agenda waiting for us upon majority-land that does not involve repealing C-38. (A vote which they really must get on with losing, and soon.)

Having lived near Szczecinek Świnoujście I am familiar with the need for noble and manly pronunciation.

The sooner C-38 is a done deal the sooner I can consider supporting this government. Though all sorts - including and especially UN representation for Quebec - would have induced howls from the Western Standard crowd had it been introduced by the a Liberal government. But as it is: Silence. Such is the lure a majority and the fragility of outrage, let alone principle.

I am trying to track down a republic where the war making power lies with the executive. Getting close with Russia where the legislature has had to struggle for any oversight role of the military and martial law may be declared by the President.

Next stop: Latin America.

I just considered what a mouthful a Polish geography-based version of Hank Snow's "I've Been Everywhere" would be. But I have the banjo and I have the "zh" down. Is this the next party piece or is the banjo version of Bowie's "Sound and Vision"?

Did someone mention a party?

I miss the Magic 8-ball on my Palm Pilot. They don't seem to have one for a Blackberry.

Figures-cm and gr show up at the party late and make silly remarks. 50 plus are pretty good numbers for the comments on a Friday Chat Eve.

Maybe late and silly, but I brought Doritos!

(Noisy crunching sounds, crumbs flying from mouth as he asks:)
So, cm, how's the new job? It has been a couple of months, what's it like?
P.S. I am a bit inquisitive, but harmless, really!

Thanks for asking, and pass the Doritos back over here. It's pretty good. It's a small tech company (although a division of a much larger financial services company), which is taking some getting used to - the General Manager has made my morning tea on occasion and everyone communicates by instant messenger. I can access all of my email accounts but can't listen to internet radio. :-(

It would seem that you have full access to Gen x at 40, too. Does this mean that you have to listen to pumped in muzak? The country station the boss loves so much? (I think you're in Toronto) All CHUM FM all the time? Tap your foot and toot your kazoo? I am self-employed living in central NY now, and really miss the Boston market radio stations, they are awesome. But the market here is much smaller I guess, but Ithaca college has a fantastic (quirky) radio station, WICB, all over the map. Modern rock mostly, but then a reggae show, and whatever the student djs want: showtunes Sunday morning, ick.

Thankfully full access to genx40 and no piped-in muzak. The brief period I was at the bank I was forced to listen to CHUM in stereo, with 2 people in my pod tuned to it rather loudly. I have my clock radio set to what used to be CFNY (I can never remember what they call themselves now) and a couple days a week I go old school and haul out my vintage '95 sports Walkman to listen to CKLN out of Ryerson.

When I was a kid in western NY CHUM was hot stuff. Something happened.